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"fhrblig" (fhrblig) 06/10/2015 at 02:32 • Filed to: None

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Just because you don’t like something, that does not mean that the something sucks. It just means that you don’t like it.

TheOnelectronic > fhrblig 06/10/2015 at 02:34

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Burrito de EJ25 > fhrblig 06/10/2015 at 02:36

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I mean, sometimes it does.

TheHondaBro > fhrblig 06/10/2015 at 02:36

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Some people like sedans more than hatchbacks. It’s not our job to tell them they’re wrong.

Bytemite > fhrblig 06/10/2015 at 02:37

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I don’t like front wheel drive. It just so happens that it sucks.

fhrblig > Bytemite 06/10/2015 at 02:41

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Perfect example: the only part of your statement that is true is “I don’t like front wheel drive.” Full stop.

Bytemite > fhrblig 06/10/2015 at 02:42

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...Aaaaand it also sucks.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > fhrblig 06/10/2015 at 02:43

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He has a point tho... FWD does suck. Understeer wil suck you into the ditch

CB > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 06/10/2015 at 02:45

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You just need more downforce, bro.

Big Bubba Ray > fhrblig 06/10/2015 at 02:46

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“Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and thinks everyone else’s stinks.”

fhrblig > Bytemite 06/10/2015 at 02:46

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Nope. You just don’t like it.

Bytemite > fhrblig 06/10/2015 at 02:47

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K. If money were no object and you could have any car you wanted.

You can take the best front wheel drive car.

I’ll take the P1.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > CB 06/10/2015 at 02:47

2

Holy wings batman!

fhrblig > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 06/10/2015 at 02:47

2

Oversteer can send you into a ditch too. Does that mean RWD sucks?

fhrblig > Bytemite 06/10/2015 at 02:50

1

I never said I wanted or favored FWD cars. That’s irrelevant. All I’m saying is that the fact that you don’t like them doesn’t mean they suck. You have legitimate reasons for not liking them, and that’s totally respectable. They still don’t suck.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > fhrblig 06/10/2015 at 02:50

1

No cause u fix oversteer with oppo and

Wheelerguy > TheOnelectronic 06/10/2015 at 02:51

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Sorry, mate. You can’t stop me. You can never stop me. If you try to, I pity you. But after that, I will crush you.

fhrblig > TheD0k_2many toys 2little time 06/10/2015 at 02:53

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Or you can go harder and faster into the ditch. Though, you’d probably be smiling up until that point...

Dusty Ventures > Bytemite 06/10/2015 at 02:54

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You need to go for a ride in an R2 Fiesta

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > fhrblig 06/10/2015 at 02:54

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well yes. and it is kinda fun. (Have oversteering into ditch in winter with truck... :0 )

Bytemite > fhrblig 06/10/2015 at 02:55

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I see. So you don’t favor FWD. As long as that is clear. I guess you are allowed to think whatever of an inferior design that was invented as a compromise for drivers and cost-saving measure for manufacturers.

I’d expect this from consumer reports readers looking to find a comparison of an Accord vs Camry for their next purchase, but not oppo. You should know better.

TheHondaBro > Dusty Ventures 06/10/2015 at 02:59

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Really any FWD car with an LSD.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > fhrblig 06/10/2015 at 03:00

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This thread sucks.

fhrblig > Bytemite 06/10/2015 at 03:03

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I do know better.

I wasted a lot of time railing against shit that doesn’t matter and being judgmental about what other people liked. It ain’t worth your time. It turns out that I’m not the supreme arbiter of what’s good and bad (who knew?); just that I like the things I like and don’t like the things that I don’t like. And holding someone’s opinion against them does you no favors in the long run. You’ll realize that some day. Just focus your energy toward the things you love, and don’t be judgmental about people who don’t share your opinions. If you want to try to get them to like what you like, then go for it.

TheHondaBro > CB 06/10/2015 at 03:03

1

Gotta love TA cars.

fhrblig > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 06/10/2015 at 03:03

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Your mom sucks. *runs away*

CB > Bytemite 06/10/2015 at 03:03

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Come on, man, really? What part of the rules (“Don’t be a dick”, “Seriously, don’t be a dick ”, “be excellent to each other”, et cetera) are you forgetting here? Don’t be condescending people like that.

Also, remember that Oppo is also a place that loves the ST Twins (both FWD), the GTI (FWD), and Saabs (FWD).

Bytemite > CB 06/10/2015 at 03:12

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Yes, those are great FWD cars for enthusiasts. But we can all agree that they are a great way to make a compromised car as fun as can be. If you were to ever start your very own car from the bottom up, you would not choose FWD.

Remember back in 2012 when everyone was crying out for a cheap RWD sports car? There were NONE in the market. A RWD car that could compete in price with hot hatches, and not be some fat ass GT car. We got the GT86, and yes, some enthusiasts still don’t quite get it. Asking for more power from the BRZ/FRS is like saying “Hey I know you have this great lightweight sports car that filled this gap that was completely empty and everyone loved you for it but can you add more power and weight so that your car is exactly the same as all the other hundreds of RWD, heavy GT cars I can just go and buy on the market?”

I suspect those kind of people are the same people that would be fine driving a FWD fun car like an FiST, never knowing the joy of a lightweight RWD car.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > fhrblig 06/10/2015 at 03:14

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Why do I feel like the Oppos that are in the mile “high” state the ones on oppo that are the most sobering?

Leon711 > Bytemite 06/10/2015 at 03:16

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P1 is something I don’t like, I’m more a 918 or LaFerrari man. It’s your opinion and I respect dat yo!

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > fhrblig 06/10/2015 at 03:16

1

Disappoints , more like it. I hope it’s less so with your mom.

Leon711 > fhrblig 06/10/2015 at 03:17

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by his standard FWD doesn’t suck, it pushes.

Leon711 > TheHondaBro 06/10/2015 at 03:18

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Brah, I got some sweet sideways action in my old VW Polo because rolling suspension and lift off shenanigans. FWD can be fun without LSD.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > fhrblig 06/10/2015 at 03:19

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Turbos suck.

CB > Bytemite 06/10/2015 at 03:19

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And I’m sure that driving any car meant to be an enthusiast car would be fun. But I’m also sure driving a rear-wheel drive pickup in an ice storm would be terrifying with no weight over the rear wheels. And I’m sure that driving a Tata Nano would be rather boring or also terrifying. You can make any wheel setup work well, it all depends on the implementation. Having rear-wheel drive does not instantly make it a driving machine.

Bytemite > Leon711 06/10/2015 at 03:20

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Hah! Same point. But yeah, all of em are dreamy. I’d have the P1 in blue for it’s beautiful curves and dat ass. Tiny turbo V8 is awesome too.

918 for the interior and those pipes...actually the P1 exhaust is just as good.

Ferrari the Ferrari, eh...for the V12?

Bytemite > CB 06/10/2015 at 03:23

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-_- Well yes. But if built for the purpose of driving pleasure, you’d have much better balance and potential from having the right layout down.

Bytemite > CB 06/10/2015 at 03:24

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Actually, I’d want to try the Tata Nano...It could be a fun little beater car.

TheOnelectronic > Wheelerguy 06/10/2015 at 03:26

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I used to get Ice Cream in that color. It was Lime flavored. It was delicious.

Now I want to lick a TheFerrari. Good job.

Leon711 > Bytemite 06/10/2015 at 03:27

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I saw JK’s Kermit Green LaFerrari at Goodwood last year, I loved it so much.

GhostZ > fhrblig 06/10/2015 at 03:41

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The only issue here is people are worse at explaining why they dislike something than they are at claiming they don’t like it.

What people don’t like are things that are bad or inefficient at what they want to do. They dont’ want to regret their decisions and waste their resources. Given how varied people’s demands are out of their vehicles, that means that every car is going to be bad at something.

Some cars suck at many things. They fucking suck, they’re not good at them, if you want to do X don’t buy that car. It doesn’t matter what your opinion is, physics and economics dictate that of the available cars for sale, the ones with this property, cannot do this thing.

I hate FWD. For many reasons. Not because I just dislike FWD.... but because of a lot of physics and economics from everything to understeer to packaging issues, to weight distribution and the available FWD cars on the market right now.

Does that mean I dislike all FWD cars? No, because some FWD cars (CRX, early civics, Focus/Fiesta ST, SRT4) mitigate the things I really don’t like, which isn’t FWD, but the consequtences of owning a FWD car that cannot do what I want it to do efficiently.

What you’re doing here is creating a straw man argument against discussing, ranking, and reviewing cars by harping on the whole politically-correct “well, that’s just your opinion, man” mentality. While you’re not entirely wrong, it is also dangerous to just ignore the fact that, at the end of the day, there’s real engineering that will simply fail in certain situations and it has to be acknowledged to “suck”.

Instead of just reducing everything to opinion to quash any notion of ranking or debate, try to encouraged informed ranking and debate.

promoted by the color red > Bytemite 06/10/2015 at 04:00

2

I’ll have this one.

Bytemite > promoted by the color red 06/10/2015 at 04:14

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Hmm...it’d be too easy. To be fair, I will choose a car in that price and age range, I’ll have the MR2 Turbo.

Gamecat235 > GhostZ 06/10/2015 at 04:40

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My initial response in one link: http://www.autozine.org/Archive/Lotus/…

(Now sure, it was overpriced, and hugely complicated, and heavy, but lets think about this, had it caught on, these things could have, at least in part, improved, and this vehicle eliminated nearly everything about FWD vehicles which was inherently bad, excepting weight transfer, which is essentially impossible, given physics).

And FWD doesn’t “fail” or “suck” it has a completely different mission profile. Commuter vehicles which place emphasis on ease of handling at low speeds, efficiency instead of performance, and lowering manufacturing costs are all just part of why most automakers offer FWD vehicles.

All ranking will have bias (you can’t eliminate bias when testing or observing something, it simply will exist), and therefore will be at least somewhat subjective. I’m not, in the slightest saying that means that you shouldn’t try to rank things, and absolutely, being informed is crucial. But I’m not going to buy a Camaro SS if I need to seat 5 and get good mileage around town. Weighting of factors will come into play. Cost, fuel efficiency, features, speed, ergonomics, cargo space, etc. For some people a vehicle which fits into a certain parking space is the most important factor.

Axial > Bytemite 06/10/2015 at 05:35

1

FWD is not inherently cost-saving. It’s actually more complex than a RWD setup, especially when you consider how it was done before they figured out how to turn the engine sideways and how, even after that, you have to cram a differential and a transmission in one location. The real attraction of FWD was increasing rear legroom without increasing the footprint of the car.

The only reason it costs less, now, is because there are more FWD platforms than RWD ones. Economies of scale and such.

Mike > TheHondaBro 06/10/2015 at 07:05

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No, but they are still wrong. Much like people who think that the Star Wars prequels were better than the original trilogy.

LongbowMkII > fhrblig 06/10/2015 at 07:23

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Generally I don’t like something because it sucks.

like sub-compact sedans.

jariten1781 > fhrblig 06/10/2015 at 07:36

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It’s a non-standard use of ‘suck’. It can mean ‘I don’t like it’ or ‘it’s objectively poor’. I wouldn’t sweat it.

thebigbossyboss > fhrblig 06/10/2015 at 08:06

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What if I like the Cross Cabroliet Convertible, Ford Tempo’s and Chevy Cavaliers. Is this a sign of mental illness?

kanadanmajava1 > fhrblig 06/10/2015 at 08:51

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There’s no good or bad things in this world. There’s only opinions.

fhrblig > thebigbossyboss 06/10/2015 at 10:01

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I like AMCs, Lincoln Town Cars, and the new Mitsubishi Mirage. I’m pretty sure that precludes me from judging your choices.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 06/10/2015 at 17:00

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They also blow!

Xyl0c41n3 > TheHondaBro 06/11/2015 at 00:36

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If loving my jelly bean is wrong, I don't want to be right. ^_^

TheHondaBro > CB 06/11/2015 at 00:40

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Integra Type R comes to mind.

Sir_Stig: and toxic masculinity ruins the party again. > Bytemite 06/18/2015 at 10:27

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I’ve driven both an FR-S and a Fiesta ST, and I ended up buying the Fiesta. While the FR-S is built on a superior platform as far as driving dynamics goes, it has other comprimises:

1. It’s a 2+2 coupe, so good luck to any passengers in the back, and have fun trying to fit anything large in the back or trunk

2.It has a peaky, low torque engine

While the Fiesta ST is starting off with the deck stacked against it as a drivers car (FWD), it takes the FWD driving experience to a 9/10 experience. the only way you could make this drive-train better is by adding an LSD. As a daily driver it is superior in almost every way, and when you want to have fun it is 9/10ths as good as the FR-S. As a single car household, it’s not even an option which one is objectively the “best” car.